Curse

tmakinen · Jun 02, 2008, 06:32 AM // 06:32

It looks like there's a skill that's so overpowered that it doesn't just break the game, it breaks game forums as well ...

FengShuiDove · Jun 02, 2008, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazza558

oh em geez0rz premashoddow x4,000,000

By your logic, then, [Signet of Humility][Signet of Disenchantment] - broken, as is the entire smiting signet line. Some of these are undoubtedly the worst skills in the game. And Ursan owns the red engine right out of SF with touch skills and PBAoE kd. If you're too noob to understand that, please don't post in skill balance threads (though this isn't much of a realistic representation anyway). Not to mention, there are a few other skills that you listed that would beast SF to the mat. Your angry little repetitive post was... wrong.

LordOfTheSquids, Chthon, you are correct.

I honestly can't believe that when a company whose nickname around the forums is "ANerf" makes a PvE buff, people complain and throw a bigger fit than before. If I were the devs I'd straight give up, or make such a butcher of an update that no one can play the game at all after all the major QQ about this last one.

DarkNecrid · Jun 02, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

I'm going to forward this to Inde, it's a problem with the GWBBCode implementation.

blurmedia · Jun 02, 2008, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Not like she doesn't already know...

Sab · Jun 02, 2008, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

C. SY and TNTF are necessary to the game thanks to the ridiculous stat-pumping seen in HM and DoA. In the unlikely event that a-net decides to go back and take away the monsters' ridiculous stats and instead make them smarter and give them better builds, then it would be time for SY and TNTF to go. But nerfing SY/TNTF without doing something about the fundamental stat-pumping problem with the monsters at the same time would make the game worse overall instead of better.

Everything can and has been done without PvE skills - SY/TNTF is as "necessary" to HM as Ursan. While the design of HM is lazy (i.e. increase mob stats), why does that justify the "necessity" of SY/TNTF?

bel unbreakable · Jun 02, 2008, 08:25 AM // 08:25

probably the same reason you buy a porsche in real life rather than a mini

Kattar · Jun 02, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Why not just list every skill, since whatever you post someone's going to argue with you?

Chthon · Jun 02, 2008, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Everything can and has been done without PvE skills - SY/TNTF is as "necessary" to HM as Ursan. While the design of HM is lazy (i.e. increase mob stats), why does that justify the "necessity" of SY/TNTF?

1. Because the game, including HM, needs to be accessible to the average player. It's the thousands of "average" players who pay the bills; and it's them for whom the game needs to be challenging-yet-doable.

2. The stat-pumped monsters necessitate some sort of exceptional damage mitigation or they just "wtfpwn" you.

3. The non-PvE-only options for big damage mitigation are too difficult for the average player to use effectively. (Let's face it -- figuring out who is about to need a PS, getting it there before the damage lands, and repeating the process without running out of energy is something most players will never master. And that goes double for when they have to micro it off a hero bar.)

4. Ergo, some easier-to-use big damage mitigation is necessary. SY and TNTF fill this role.

Tyla · Jun 02, 2008, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Hard Mode in no way is restricted to the average player.

If you want to go for a higher difficulty, so be it.

Parson Brown · Jun 02, 2008, 06:48 PM // 18:48

LOL, the OP added Wastrel's Collapse to the main list.

And if everything is overpowered (as that list would seem to suggest), isn't everything really balanced?

lord of all tyria · Jun 02, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

I would like to nominate flare, that's how useless the OP is.

Cale Roughstar · Jun 02, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Yeah, Ryker, you might want to take off some of the skills that people nominated as jokes

.

Different skills are overpowered in certain situations. I have been using [skill]Shield of Deflection[/skill] in RA recently, and have never seen more QQ'ing from the other team, yet by no means is it an overpowered skill.

Angels Guidance · Jun 02, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

The page broke after I posted Scribes Insigh t and Teas e as examples... ftw

Edit: and yeah I cant view my post from my profile either, searching for my posts

Bowstring Badass · Jun 02, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by bel unbreakable

probably the same reason you buy a porsche in real life rather than a mini

For a penis extension doh. Sorry but just had to.

Honestly I hope the OP was joking with [wastrel's collapse].

Toutatis · Jun 02, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Personally, I would remove the mesmer profession from the list of overpowered things. Yes, I would agree that many mesmer skills are extremely powerful but they're also highly situational and rely on opponents doing (or not doing) certain things in combat. A slight change in enemy tactics during a fight can alter the effectiveness of a mesmer's build from extremely powerful to utterly useless in the time that it takes someone to say "Switch to Plan B", so mesmers are pathetically weak against teams that take the time to sort out a variable combat strategy and avoid cookie-cutter builds.

One thing that I do think is overpowered though is shadow stepping. It's like a stupid speed boost that ignores bodyblocking and movement speed debuffs.

XDeadboltX · Jun 02, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toutatis

One thing that I do think is overpowered though is shadow stepping. It's like a stupid speed boost that ignores bodyblocking and movement speed debuffs.

Yes this definately

Sab · Jun 02, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Because the game, including HM, needs to be accessible to the average player. It's the thousands of "average" players who pay the bills; and it's them for whom the game needs to be challenging-yet-doable.

2. The stat-pumped monsters necessitate some sort of exceptional damage mitigation or they just "wtfpwn" you.

3. The non-PvE-only options for big damage mitigation are too difficult for the average player to use effectively. (Let's face it -- figuring out who is about to need a PS, getting it there before the damage lands, and repeating the process without running out of energy is something most players will never master. And that goes double for when they have to micro it off a hero bar.)

4. Ergo, some easier-to-use big damage mitigation is necessary. SY and TNTF fill this role.

Is Hard Mode targeted towards the average player? The very name implies that it's supposed to offer something above Normal Mode. As such, the player needs to rise to the additional challenge, rather than the challenge be brought down to the player.

There's enough content in Normal Mode to satisfy the average player - if he has enough time to complete a substantial portion of Hard Mode, then he also has enough time to learn the game.

BlackSephir · Jun 02, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Because the game, including HM, needs to be accessible to the average player.

Really? Hard Mode should be accessible to players who are not good GW players? That sorta defeats the whole purpose of HARD mode.

Snow Bunny · Jun 02, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Is Hard Mode targeted towards the average player? The very name implies that it's supposed to offer something above Normal Mode. As such, the player needs to rise to the additional challenge, rather than the challenge be brought down to the player.

There's enough content in Normal Mode to satisfy the average player - if he has enough time to complete a substantial portion of Hard Mode, then he also has enough time to learn the game.

Sab is right here.

Chthon, your comments here are based on a fundamental flaw - that any player should be able to complete anything. PvE'ers who had already rolled the entire PvE realm cried for something to challenge them, while your beloved casual/average player was still battling through dwarf armies in THK with their Mo/R beastmaster monk. If the average player, as a demographic, were that crucial to the market proportion, a game like WoW would have died immediately upon the discovery that certain instances of high-end content are crushingly difficult.

Guild Wars, with its initial emphasis on the 'casual player', was catering towards the fact that to be able to beat it/particpate in PvP, your equipment/level wasn't much of an issue, with equipment/level power limits. One of my roommates from last year was a casual player; I still talk to him and play with him online. He's currently struggling with other casual players to beat DoA AND THEY LOVE THE CHALLENGE OF IT. For most of us, DoA NM is accomplished in 45 min with a jumbleRED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO of pve-skills, and HM isn't that much harder. Furthermore, it's boring for us because it's easy. But the casual player loves the intidimidating/formidable nature of these elite areas, and find it exciting to try and beat them.

If Guild Wars were much harder, with PvE being a legit challenge, and HM being truly hard, Guild Wars would have much more longevity. If only 10% of the playerbase had beaten DoA, I'd be fine with that; it'd be a challenge. Games get boring when you use cheat codes, and Ursan/SY/TNTF/[Insert PvE skill here] is a cheat code. Sure, it may be just a game, but if you can breeze through the game in 2 hours and then there's nothing to do but do it all over again against monsters with twice the health, do you really want to spend more time to do the same thing?

If Hard Mode should be accessible to casual players, and beatable by average players, then we should have a Nightmare mode, where teams full of Ursan/SY/TNTF have a very real and reasonable chance of failure on a consistent basis.

Div · Jun 02, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Who really cares if they're OP? "Casual" players like to have OP stuff, or else they'd never be able to do the areas for "experienced" players. Doesn't quite make sense, since you know, those areas are meant for better players, but whatever.

Arguing with the mindless mobs in Riverside whose intelligence is lower than that of an Angorodon's is pointless. They just want it easy. They don't get Hard mode and elite missions are supposed to be hard, and not meant for everyone. And this is why Ensign quit. Not only is PvP trash now, PvE has also gotten steadily worse with the bad population getting more voice and attention.